dailynewsnblog
On this “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” broadcast, moderated by Ed O’Keefe:
- Tom Homan, Trump administration border czar
- House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Democrat of New York
- Rep. Robert Garcia, Democrat of California
- Sen. Thom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina
Click here to browse full transcripts from 2026 of “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan.”
ED O’KEEFE: I’m Ed O’Keefe in Washington.
And this week on Face the Nation: Funding for the Department of Homeland Security is on hold. Negotiations over immigration enforcement are at a standstill.
Two months into the new year, and part of the government is shut down yet again, as disputes over President Trump’s deportation policy leave lawmakers unable to fund the Department of Homeland Security.
Caught in limbo, TSA agents, the Coast Guard, FEMA employees, and thousands of others, many working without pay.
We will ask White House border czar Tom Homan and House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries where negotiations stand.
Then: The fallout from the release of the Epstein files grows, as Attorney General Pam Bondi is grilled on Capitol Hill for her department’s handling of the investigation. We will ask the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, California’s Robert Garcia, what more he wants to see from the Justice Department, as lawmakers review unredacted files for the first time.
And, finally, as world leaders gather at an annual security conference in Munich, we will hear all about that and about America’s standing in the world with North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis.
It’s all just ahead on Face the Nation.
Good morning, and welcome to Face the Nation. Margaret is off today.
Washington is waking up to another funding standoff, and it’s unclear at this point when it could end, as Congress is on recess for another week.
So, for more on the debate over immigration enforcement tactics, we’re joined by White House border czar Tom Homan.
Mr. Homan, thank you so much for joining us.
TOM HOMAN (White House Border Czar): Well, thanks for having me.
ED O’KEEFE: I want to begin, of course, with negotiations over reopening the Department of Homeland Security.
They center around some specific policy changes Democrats demand in how immigration agents conduct operations. Among other things, they’d like to require immigration agents to show identification, wear body cameras, take off their masks, stop racial profiling, and seek judicial warrants to enter private property.
Which, if any of those asks, is the president, are you willing consider – or willing to consider adopting?
TOM HOMAN: Well, I’m not a part of those negotiations. That’s being – that’s being done up on the Hill between the Senate and House and the White House. I’m not really part of those negotiations.
But, look, you know, to – they – when they say stop racial profiling, that’s just not occurring. I mean, ICE will detain, briefly detain and question somebody – question somebody based on reasonable suspicion. It has nothing to do with racial profiling.
As far as the masks, look, you know, I don’t like the masks either, but because threats against ICE officers, you know, are up over 1500 percent, actual assaults, and threats are up over 8000 percent, these men and women have to protect themselves.
As far as identifying themselves, they all have placards identifying themselves as ICE, ERO, HSI, DEA, FBI.So they all have placards on them. So I will let the White House and members of Congress, you know, fight that out. But I think some of the asks are just – I think they’re unreasonable, because there is no racial profiling.
There is identifying marks. But masks, you know, why don’t they talk about maybe passing legislation to make it illegal to dox agents or something like that?
ED O’KEEFE: Well…
TOM HOMAN: But the masks right now are for officer safety reasons.
ED O’KEEFE: There are federal laws, of course, against injuring, harming, threatening federal authorities, so there is that.
And I think one of the things that people get hung up on is the idea that the cop on the street in their neighborhood, a state police officer, other federal agents will identify themselves with their name on their lapel, and, yes, their employing agency.
But why should these immigration agents be any different when it comes to the masks as well? You know, cops go out every day, everywhere across the country, get threatened in one way or another.
TOM HOMAN: I don’t know – I don’t know…
(CROSSTALK)
ED O’KEEFE: But why – why have to wear all that and protect themselves, when there are others out there wearing badges that don’t have to do that?
TOM HOMAN: Well, again, they are wearing badges. They’re wearing placards to identify what agency they’re from…
ED O’KEEFE: But their name isn’t on it, right?
TOM HOMAN: But when it comes to masks, I don’t – I – I don’t know of another law enforcement agency in the country that has an 8000 percent increase in threats.
Just yesterday, the director of ICE, his wife was filmed walking to work. His home address has been doxxed. His kids have been doxxed and filmed. So, no, I don’t know of another agency in this country that has an 8000 percent increase.
And then, look, let’s remember why we’re here, Ed. We’re here because, the last four years, over 10 million illegal aliens crossed that border, released in this country unvetted. ICE has to do a law enforcement response to deal with the last four years of open border, where they claim the border was secure every day. And it wasn’t.
ED O’KEEFE: What’s so wrong about obtaining a judicial warrant to enter private property?
TOM HOMAN: That’s not what the federal law requires.
Congress themselves wrote the Immigration Nationality Act that gave power on the administrative warrant to arrest somebody. And that’s what’s set up in federal statutes. So if Congress wants that changed, then Congress can legislate.
But, right now, ICE is acting within the framework of federal statutes enacted by Congress and signed by a president.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, as I recall, you have previously said that you thought judicial warrants were necessary for searches.
There’s been this change in policy, in that now ICE can go with these administrative warrants that are issued by ICE personnel. Why your change of heart? I mean, clearly, there – at one point, at least, you agreed that was necessary.
TOM HOMAN: I – I – no, I don’t have a changed heart. What I understand, and I wasn’t part of those discussions, is that DOJ interpreted that law saying in certain – in certain circumstances, administrative warrant on somebody has a final order removal, already had a due process issued by a federal judge, they can enter a premises.
I’m not a part of that discussion, but that’s the DOJ guidance.
ED O’KEEFE: Last week, you announced the monthslong operation known as Metro Surge in Minnesota is winding down. ICE, of course, is going to maintain a presence in the state, but not at the levels we’ve seen in recent weeks. If things keep winding down, when should that surge be over?
TOM HOMAN: Well, look, about as of – we already removed well over 1,000 people.
And as of Monday, Tuesday, we’ll remove several hundred more. We’ll get back to the original footprint, with the exception of the agents there to do the fraud investigation will stay there and continue their work until they’re done.
The agents investigating the church issue, where the people went into the church, they’ll stay and get that work done. But there will be – there will be a small force, a security force, what we call RFQs, that will – our security forces, that will respond to – when our agents are out and they get surrounded by agitators and things get out of control.
And they’ll remain for a short period of time, just to make sure the coordination, the agreements we have with local state law enforcement stay in place and they respond to a public safety threat when needed. And so hopefully those security forces – security – a small footprint of security forces can remove – can be removed really fairly quickly, I’m hoping.
ED O’KEEFE: OK. Sure.
TOM HOMAN: I think things are going the right direction, and I got faith they’ll continue that way.
ED O’KEEFE: This was the largest deployment of federal immigration agents in department history. Do you anticipate there will be others on the scale seen in Minneapolis?
TOM HOMAN: I think it depends on the situation.
I have said from day one that, you know, we need to – we need to flood the zone in sanctuary cities with additional agents. The number of agents depend on the situation on the ground, how many known criminal targets are out there, because we know we have a problem with sanctuary cities, because we know they’re releasing public safety threats in the public.
So, rather than arrest that one criminal in jail, one agent arresting one criminal alien in the safety and security of a jail, which is safer for the agent, safer for the alien, safer for the community, they release them in the street. Now we got to send a whole team or six or seven people.
That is a win we had in Minnesota, everybody. Because now we have agreements and coordination with jails, we can arrest that public safety threat in the safety and security of a jail, which means we don’t have to send six or seven people out to look for them.
So, I’m hoping other sanctuary cities look at what was – what happened in Minnesota and how we – how we got to the place we’re at, which I think is a good place. I hope more people pay attention to that, and we work with these states to let our officers in the jail.
You can’t – a lot of politicians are out there on the left or the Democrats saying, OK, ICE – we agree. You should be focusing on public safety threats. You should be focusing on illegal aliens who have committed serious crimes in this country.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
TOM HOMAN: But they lock us out of the jail. You can’t square that. If you really want us to focus on the criminals, then let us in the jail. That’s the safest, most secure place to do our work.
ED O’KEEFE: A few other things quickly, if we can.
As the surge winds down in Minneapolis, one of the more dramatic incidents now is very much in question, as you know, two ICE agents now on administrative leave pending an internal investigation, because video evidence shows their sworn testimony appears to have been untruthful.
Only hours after that incident occurred, you’ll recall DHS had said the ICE officer who shot the migrant they were targeting was being ambushed and feared for his life. That now appears to be untrue.
You take that incident, combined with the two deadly shootings in Minneapolis and an incident in Chicago recently where evidence contradicted the government’s claim a woman rammed an agent’s vehicle, and I wonder, does this all just further undermine trust in ICE across the country?
TOM HOMAN: Well, look, you know, in my first press conference in Minnesota, I said I was bringing additional internal affairs agents in just to make sure officers in the field was doing the right thing.
And every one of those instances you just talked about were turned over to internal affairs. I know the FBI is investigating the cases also. So we’ll see where those investigations lead. But as the ICE director said on Friday, people will be held accountable and they’ll be fully investigated. And we’ve that investigation comes out, then disciplinary action or prosecutions will occur.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
A “Wall Street Journal’ report published in recent days – I’m sure you’ve seen it – details widespread concerns with the leadership of Homeland Security, Secretary Kristi Noem and her chief adviser, Corey Lewandowski.
The report says you rarely speak with the secretary or Lewandowski, despite the fact that you oversee immigration issues as well from the White House perspective, and that you’ve repeatedly complained to the White House about them.
What is your concern with Secretary Noem and Corey Lewandowski?
TOM HOMAN: Look, it’s one team, one fight.
I’m not playing in that media. They’re trying to divide this administration. They want to attack the men and women who work in this administration. Look, do me and Secretary Noem agree on everything? No. That’s why we have discussions. That’s why every day we have a multiagency conference call and meeting.
We discuss going forward, and we have different opinions. Well, those different opinions are worked out and we move forward. The bottom line is, we have the most secure border in the history of this nation. We have got record numbers of criminal aliens arrested and deported in this country because this is one team, one fight. The results speak for themselves.
ED O’KEEFE: But you don’t dispute you’ve had disagreements with them at times, even if they’ve been resolved?
TOM HOMAN: I have. I have disagreements with – we got – we got many federal agencies, and it’s not – it’s not like an out-of-control disagreement.
I want to do it this way. Someone wants to do it this way. Then we talk about, well, what works best in this situation? We all come to agreement in the end, but it’s a discussion of different ideas. I have been doing this for 40 years. We have the – Rodney Scott that runs CBP has been doing it for 30 years.
So we all come to the table. We come up with different ideas, but we settle on a mission, and I think the results of this mission speaks for themselves, again, the most secure border in history of this nation, because of our collaboration…
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
TOM HOMAN: … and record numbers of criminal aliens being arrested and deported. The results speak for themselves.
ED O’KEEFE: Tom Homan, the White House border czar, thank you for spending some of your Sunday with us. We appreciate it.
Face the Nation will be back in one minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: We turn now to House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, who joins us this morning from New York City.
Leader Jeffries, thank you for being here.
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-New York): Good morning. Great to be with you.
ED O’KEEFE: So as this shutdown continues, I want to remind our viewers what it is exactly congressional Democrats are seeking to reopen the Department of Homeland Security.
You want immigration agents to show I.D.s, to wear body cameras, take off their masks, stop racial profiling, and seek judicial warrants to enter private property. Talks between the White House and congressional Democrats are continuing.
Are you willing to compromise, to let any of these go to get the government reopened?
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, our value proposition is simple. Taxpayer dollars should be used to make life more affordable for the American people, not brutalize or kill them, as we horrifically saw in Minneapolis with the cold-blooded killings of Renee Nicole Good and Alex Pretti.
We know and the American people clearly know that ICE is totally out of control and they need to be reined in, because the American people deserve immigration enforcement that is fair, that is just, and that is humane.
And so we need dramatic change at ICE, including, but not limited to, the types of things that you laid out, before any DHS funding bill moves forward.
ED O’KEEFE: With the exception of some flexibility on body cameras, because they’re starting to spend some money to get those out there, some Republicans have rejected this list of policy reform proposals.
You guys still seem miles apart. So when, conceivably, will we see this resolved? And, again, I ask you, if – are there any of these points that you’re willing to let go in order to get the government reopened?
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, we’re willing to have a good faith conversation about everything, but, fundamentally, we need change that is dramatic, that is bold, that is meaningful and that is transformational.
And these are commonsense things. For instance, judicial warrants should be required before ICE agents can storm private property or rip everyday Americans out of their homes.
We need to make sure that there are actual independent investigations, so that, if state and local laws are violated, in many cases violently violated, that state and local authorities have the ability to criminally investigate and criminally prosecute anyone who has violated the law, because we cannot trust Kristi Noem or Pam Bondi to conduct an independent investigation.
We believe that sensitive locations should be off limits, sensitive locations like houses of worship, schools, hospitals or polling sites, and that, fundamentally, ICE should be targeting violent felons who are here unlawfully, as opposed to violently targeting law-abiding immigrant families, which is completely inconsistent with what Donald Trump promised the American people he would do.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
And we, of course, this past week reported that about 14 percent of those detained had violent criminal records. About 60 percent of them were wanted on criminal records overall, but it was that 14 percent violent criminals.
Again, I just – it sounds like this is going to go on a while, because Tom Homan wasn’t terribly flexible on anything, especially on the issue of warrants and masks. You’re not ceding any ground. So there’s a few things coming up here.
For example, State of the Union is scheduled for a week from Tuesday. Should it be held if the Department of Homeland Security is shut down?
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, we’ll cross that bridge when we get to it. It’s certainly my hope that we get some resolution…
ED O’KEEFE: Sounds like you’re going to get to it, though. I mean…
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: … in advance of it.
Well, here’s the thing. The administration and Republicans have made a clear decision that they would rather shut down FEMA, shut down the Coast Guard and shut down TSA than enact the type of dramatic reforms necessary so that ICE and other DHS law enforcement agencies are conducting themselves like every other law enforcement professional in the country.
For instance, police officers don’t use masks. County sheriffs don’t use masks. State troopers don’t use masks.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Why is it that ICE agents, who are untrained, are being unleashed on American communities with this type of lawlessness, violence and brutality? Unacceptable, unconscionable, and it’s un-American.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes, and we went over this with Tom Homan a little earlier.
Of course, they point out that assaults against ICE officers have gone up over 1300 percent this past year from about 275 compared to 19 the year before. So there are some legitimate concerns about those agents being targeted, but your broader point about…
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: We’re going to – yes.
ED O’KEEFE: … whether or not law enforcement should behave the same as our law enforcement is heard.
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Yes.
And we’re going to continue, of course, to encourage the American people to exercise their constitutional rights, their freedom of assembly and their freedom of speech and their freedom of expression peacefully, as we saw overwhelmingly done in Minneapolis.
ED O’KEEFE: All right. Well, we’ll stay tuned on the shutdown and the negotiations.
And let me ask you a few other things while we have you. First of all, you’re a member of the Gang of Eight, who gets briefed on national security matters. The Pentagon is reportedly planning for the possibility of sustained weeks-long operations against Iran if diplomacy fails and the president opts to attack.
What do you know about those plans or what would you want to learn as a member of the Gang of Eight?
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, the administration, as has been the case since the very beginning of this presidency, has been slow to provide information both to the Gang of Eight members of Congress, the legislative leadership and the top Democrats and Republicans on the Intel Committee, and certainly hasn’t provided a significant amount of information to Congress in general.
These people within the administration, the extremists, they don’t seem to believe that Congress is a separate and co-equal branch of government. We are. In fact, the power to declare war is exclusively given to Congress in Article I of the United States Constitution.
Now, the American people want Donald Trump and Republicans to actually keep their promise and focus on driving down the high cost of living and fixing our broken health care system. It was Donald Trump who promised, in fact, that costs will go down on day one.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Costs haven’t gone down. We’re in the midst of an affordability crisis that hasn’t been resolved. Perhaps the president should focus on making life better for the American people, period, full stop.
ED O’KEEFE: I hear you on that.
I want to remind our viewers of the current ticktock, tight margins in the House. You’ve got to net at least three seats to take the majority at this point. I want to play for you part of what you had to say about the 2026 elections when you were asked this past Thursday. Take a listen.
(BEGIN TAPE)
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: We only need to net three. It’s happening. Democrats are going to take back control of the House, and the only question is, what’s the margin?
(END TAPE)
ED O’KEEFE: Right now, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee considers 44 of the 435 seats in the House in play, including you just added five new ones this past week, South Central Virginia, a district in South Carolina, Southern Minnesota, Central Colorado and the at-large seat in Montana, parts of the country where Democrats don’t normally win elections, we should point out.
So, if the election were held today, at minimum, at minimum, how many seats do you see Democrats winning?
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, if the election were held today, we’re taking back control of the House of Representatives, and I’m not convinced that it would necessarily be close.
But these are battles that are going to be waged district by district by district. We know we’re winning seats now in deep-red territory. We saw that in Miami in December, where we won the mayor’s race for the first time in 30 years by 20 points.
And then, in January, of course, we flipped a seat in the Texas State Senate that Donald Trump had just won by 17 points. The Democratic candidate won it by 14. That was a 31-point overperformance. And then just last weekend in Louisiana, we flipped the House seat that Trump had won by 14. We won that – or 13.
ED O’KEEFE: So you…
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: We won that by 24 points. That was a 37- point overperformance.
My point is, we’re winning across the country in blue states and purple states and red states because the American people know we’re the only ones focused on driving down the high cost of living, fixing our broken health care system…
ED O’KEEFE: You’ve got to get…
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: … and making sure that immigration enforcement is fair and just.
ED O’KEEFE: You’ve got to get at least three; 20 to 25 seats, all 44 seats? What do you think right now? Give me a number.
REPRESENTATIVE HAKEEM JEFFRIES: Well, I’m not in the prediction business. I’m in the let’s win on behalf of the American people so we can end this national nightmare business.
ED O’KEEFE: All right, Leader Jeffries, to be continued on the shutdown and on the midterms. We appreciate you spending some time with us this morning. We’ll talk to you soon.
And we’ll be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: Tonight, Maryland Governor Wes Moore joins Norah O’Donnell to kick off our new CBS News town hall series Things That Matter.
Here’s a preview.
(Begin VT)
NORAH O’DONNELL: President Donald Trump won the presidency in 2024 promising this immigration crackdown that we are witnessing. The Biden administration allowed over four million migrants into the country through the southern border during his term in office.
Are Democrats to blame for this immigration crisis that we’re witnessing?
GOVERNOR WES MOORE (D-Maryland): Well, I definitely think that the former president did not have this right.
NORAH O’DONNELL: You do?
GOVERNOR WES MOORE: Oh, yes.
And we needed to do more, that I don’t think anyone can argue that we had the system worked out under President Biden, that immigration was worked out. But, actually, I would argue that we have not had the system worked out amongst multiple administrations.
Immigration has been an issue that we as a country have punted on for a very long time, because the people who can uniquely fix immigration is Congress. And this is the frustrating thing for me with this Congress right now, where I feel we’re just watching a continued abdication of responsibility, where, if the speaker – the ironic thing is, right now, the president has – the president’s party has the presidency, the House, and the Senate.
If the president wanted immigration reform done right now, do you know what he could do? He would call up the speaker of the House and he said, I need a bill on my desk by next week. And do you know what would be on his desk next week? A comprehensive immigration bill reform, because they have the votes.
And that’s not happening.
(End VT)
ED O’KEEFE: The full conversation airs tonight at 8:00 p.m. Eastern/7:00 Central, and will also stream on Paramount+.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: We will be right back with a lot more Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: Welcome back to “FACE THE NATION.”
We turn now to the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, California Congressman Robert Garcia, who joins us this morning from Long Beach, where he used to be the mayor.
Congressman, good to see you. Thank you for being with us.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA (D-CA): Sure thing. Thank you.
ED O’KEEFE: I want to start real quick because you are on the committee that essentially has oversight of the entire government. Your Democrats, you don’t have control of the panel. You’ve held some unofficial hearings on ICE operations nationwide.
I’m curious if you’re talking to the Republicans at all about doing anything to investigate allegations or wrongdoing of ICE and the Border Patrol as they continue to carry out immigration enforcement operations.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Look, I think it’s just been very recently where we’ve actually seen more and more Republicans actually speak out and begin to show some level of courage. ICE, CBP, DHS is completely out of control. We have heard, not just in hearings, but certainly in looking at what’s happening across this country, folks talking and telling their stories. We’re talking about U.S. citizens that are being shot. We’re talking about U.S. veterans that are being detained for no reason. Children that are being deported as young as four, five years old, sending them to detention, in other cases that we’ve seen.
And so, I think you’re beginning to see some Republicans actually show concern. But right now DHS is causing terror across this country and Donald Trump has turned, not just DHS but ICE specifically, which we now know is larger than it’s ever been, into his own personal police force.
ED O’KEEFE: But you know of no Republican committee chairman currently planning to investigate all these allegations, right? Is that what you’re saying?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Oh, there’s no chairman out there that have – – that have come out publicly. Now, you begin to hear some Republicans show some concern. But they need to show more courage. I mean Mike Johnson, at the end of the day, does whatever Donald Trump wants him to do.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: And Republicans need to go out there and start speaking the truth of what’s happening on the street.
ED O’KEEFE: So, the big reason I wanted to speak with you this morning is, of course, you’re now trying to conduct a pretty aggressive review of the Epstein documents as they’ve now been released by the Justice Department. There have been about 3.5 million documents released. And based on a CBS News review, so far there doesn’t appear to be enough evidence to criminally charge anyone else.
Saturday night the Department of Justice released this legally required list of all government officials and politically exposed persons in the Epstein files. More than 300 names on the list, which they acknowledge are people who are here listed in a wide variety of contexts. DOJ says they’re doing as asked because it was part of the law. It lists everyone from Beyonce to Joe Biden, George W. Bush, Princess Diana, Michael Jackson, Barack Obama, Mike Pence, the Trumps, Mark Zuckerburg, among others, because they came up in one way or another in the documents.
A few questions. Why was this asked for? And are you aware yet of any names being not on this list that should be on the list?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Well, we’re reviewing the list, of course. But let’s be really clear, this is a massive coverup being led by the White House and the DOJ. The fact that 50 percent, half of the Epstein files, have not been released to the public and to the Congress. And of those that have been released, the actual files that have been out in the public or that we’ve seen, they’re overly redacted. Many of the survivors and victims, their names are actually appearing. So, there’s no protection for the survivors, yet the names of billionaires, the names of folks that could be coconspirators, that helped fund Jeffrey Epstein, that could have actually been involved in the terror and rape, as we know, abuse of women and children. Some of those names continue to be redacted and protected. Why won’t the DOJ actually follow the law, not just what was passed by Congress, but the subpoena that was put in place by the Oversight Committee during the summer?
And so this continues to be a coverup. And the American public understand that they continue to hide and protect and deflect. Why does Donald Trump, the president, continue to, in our opinion, to protect these powerful men? We’re not going to stop until we get justice for the survivors.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, the Justice Department says they’ve released everything they can and the rest are protected by attorney privilege, contain victim information or contain child sexual assault material. I know there’s been a back and forth in recent days about a handful of names that were redacted, should have been unredacted. Turns out they didn’t have anything to do with it. They just happen to be in an event or in a photo with Jeffrey Epstein, basically.
But I want to ask you about your investigation, the congressional investigation. You told the attorney general on Friday it would take more than seven years for members to check the redactions on those three million pages, which sounds unrealistic. But is it your intent to review all of those documents to see what other information is there, what other names are either mentioned or missing?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Absolutely. Look, we have a great team on the committee that’s reviewing right now every single document, going through all the files that are available to the public, looking at redactions, trying to understand and piece together an investigation.
And it’s not just the documents. We’re interviewing survivors. We’re talking to key witnesses.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: We’re going to be holding hearings in the future as well. So, all of that is part of this. But at the end of the day they have not given us all the documents. So, until we actually get the full set of files, this is not going to be a complete investigation. And the coverup that’s being led by the White House and Pam Bondi is continuing. And the American public see this. And so, they need to release all of the files.
ED O’KEEFE: All right, well working with what you’ve got so far, what are you looking for specifically? Are there names? Are there events? Are there situations to clarify that they’ve been released or that they’re out there? What is it you’re looking for?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Look, there’s a variety of things. And, number one is, we want to ensure that all the names of the men that were coconspirators, those that themselves terrorized and brutalized women and children, those people need to be exposed. That work has begun. An additional piece of this is who was financing Jeffrey Epstein? So, for example, this upcoming week we’ll be interviewing Les Wexner, who likely have been the single largest benefactor in providing financial support to Jeffrey Epstein. Where did he get all of his money? And for what? And where was that money going? That is another critical part of this investigation.
And we’ve subpoenaed also the bank records. So, we’re going through all of those. And that information is critical to our investigation.
And then, of course, is, who was involved in the trafficking of girls and women? It wasn’t just Ghislane Maxwell. Why were there so many women being attacked in places across the country, whether it was New York, but also Palm Beach. You look at Mar-a-Lago. Why was Mar-a-Lago a location where women continued to be trafficked from? So, these are questions that we need to ask. We have questions for President Trump. And the broader – I think the broader issue here is why wasn’t this investigated when these – when these – when these accusations and these stories actually were heard by the FBI years ago, where was the investigation? Where was the DOJ?
And this, by the way, is an issue not just in Republican administrations –
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: But also ones led by Democrats.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: We have to get answers.
ED O’KEEFE: You mentioned Wexner, who you’re interviewing this coming week. Have you heard back yet from the man formerly known as Prince Andrew?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: We have not. But we absolutely have sent letters. We want to actually talk to Prince Andrew. And it’s not just Prince Andrew – former Prince Andrew.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: And what’s happening right now across – you know, over in the U.K. is pretty stunning. And it’s actually a show of what is – what happens when the government listens to the public.
ED O’KEEFE: Sure.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: There are actually things happening to those that have been involved. That example that’s happening over there and other parts of the world needs to happen in our country. And the fact that the White House continues to cover up for these files and for these men I think is shameful. Release all the files today.
And last thing. They keep claiming that, oh, well, there is a – you know, there’s some attorney client privilege, or there’s interagency communication we can’t put out to the public. That might be true in the Epstein Transparency Act, but it is not true in the subpoena that asks for the exact same documents that was passed last July and August. And so there is no reason why Congress shouldn’t have all of the documents in front of us right now.
ED O’KEEFE: Let me ask you about a few more specific names. I’ve heard about the coverup that you’re alleging by the White House. Let’s worth through some of these names.
Peter Mandelson, the former British ambassador to the U.S., you heard back from him yet?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: We have not.
ED O’KEEFE: OK.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: But we absolutely want to talk to him. I mean (INAUDIBLE).
ED O’KEEFE: Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick, he had said in an interview last year he hadn’t see Howard Lutnick in years. Turns out he went to see his island off the U.S. Virgin Islands with his family back in 2012 and he had business interest with him in 2014. Are you working with Republican Chairman Jim Comer to bring Howard Lutnick in for questioning?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: We have asked Chairman Comer to bring in Howard Lutnick and we have yet no – had no response. Not only did he visit the island, he had tons of communication with Jeffrey Epstein after it was already known that Jeffrey Epstein was essentially convicted for preying on children.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: So, it is – it is shameful that he’s actually in our government. He should not be the commerce secretary. He should come talk to the Oversight Committee.
ED O’KEEFE: The Oversight Committee also voted last month to hold Bill and Hillary Clinton in contempt of Congress for failing to show up for similar testimony. They’re now scheduled to appear later this month for closed door testimony. What’s the point of having them come in?
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: Look, we’ve said from day one that we’re willing to talk to anybody, whether they’re Republicans or Democrats. Whoever they are, whatever – how powerful they are, if you have information about Jeffrey Epstein, we want to talk to you. We’ve been saying that about Bill – about President Clinton for a while. I’m glad that he’s coming in.
Look, the one thing I’ll say, and I think both President Clinton and Secretary Clinton have also added that they would like those hearings to be public.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE ROBERT GARCIA: That’s something that we absolutely support. We have questions for President Clinton. We’ll be asking those in New York in the weeks ahead as you know. But there’s a lot of people that we need to speak with. And the more that we can have these conversations in public I think it’s better for the American people. It’s what they want to see. And they want to understand what was the truth about Epstein, who he knew, where he got his money from, and why there’s been a constant focus on covering up his crimes by so many in government.
ED O’KEEFE: Congressman Robert Garcia, the top Democrat on the House Oversight Committee, thank you for spending part of Sunday with us. We appreciate it.
And we’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: Secretary of State Marco Rubio left the annual Munich Security Conference after offering some reassurance to European allies warry of the Trump administration’s posture on NATO, but remained firm on the administration’s ambitions to reshape the Trans-Atlantic Alliance.
North Carolina Republican Senator Thom Tillis was among the group of American lawmakers attending the conference. We spoke with him Friday and began by asking whether the U.S. is still a reliable partner for Europe.
(BEGIN VT)
SENATOR THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, you know, in some ways I hope that we’re going to enter an era where our reliance on Europe is improved.
Look, I’ve got a challenge with some of the things coming out of the White House, but a lot of the frustration comes from a $2 trillion shortfall in investing in our mutual defense by far too many NATO allies. Now, they’re making right now, but you have to give the administration and the president some latitude to point to the fact that a $2 trillion shortfall over two decades, what has that done to our readiness? What has that done to our innovation? What’s that done to our military industrial base and manufacturing capacity?
You know, we could be scaling up latent capabilities that would have been serving that $2 trillion to better serve Ukraine and better modernize their own weapons. So, let’s make sure that people look at this with balance and understand that a part of the reason why we are where we are is because we have the deficit in the 20 year – in the first 20 years of this century.
Now, the NATO alliance is the most important alliance in the history of mankind. And the – and the Article One branch, Congress, believes that. And they believe it in large numbers. So, we’re going to commit. I’m here in Munich to basically remind everybody that we have three coequal branches of government. The president is trying to get our NATO allies to perform more strongly and have some level of independence. But the Congress has their back.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes. So, when the defense secretary sends the Pentagon’s number three to a NATO defense meeting this week and tells the rest of the alliance the U.S.’ support for NATO will continue but, quote, “in a more limited and focused fashion,” is that the message that Europe should be receiving right now? Is that the way the administration should approach it?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: I would not have used those words. I think what we want to do is be stronger and represent the deterrent capabilities of our alliance. The United States could possibly go it alone, but the reality is, our alliance is what makes us the world’s superpower and what keeps this world safer.
We’re going to have malign actors for the – for it – we’ve had them throughout history. We will continue to. Putin is a liar and a murderer. He should be expelled from Ukraine. I’ll accept a peace agreement if Volodymyr Zelenskyy wants one. But we need to be sure that our adversaries, unless they change profoundly, are viewed as adversaries. That we have to co-exist with but not appease.
At the same time Europe needs to step up. Not let this be episodic that they’re now starting to contribute to their mutual defense. Their own capabilities incidentally. It’s not like they’re writing a check and sending it to the U.S. This is building up their capabilities. Their interoperability. Their ability to work with NATO allies if a conflict occurs.
So, you know, it’s an emotional time. I’ve got a philosophy that nothing is ever as good as – bad as it seems. I think people coming to Munich thinking that this is the end of NATO are being a bit alarmist and that we just need to get things right and learn from the past mistakes of our allies, or lean from the past mistakes of people that have come up short.
But the rhetoric about NATO somehow being a second tier sort of alliance going forward is clearly being spoken by somebody who doesn’t really understand the brilliance and the power of the NATO alliance.
ED O’KEEFE: On NATO, one of the things the alliance announced in recent days is this plan for a new arctic century mission to strengthen security across the arctic region. That decision, of course, comes in the wake of the president, in the last few weeks, urging NATO to do more for arctic security, dropping his threats of military invasion of Greenland. Is this new operation exactly what you’re talking about, what you want to see the alliance doing, and is it also the answer to the president’s concerns about Greenland?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Well, you know, we talked in Davos. The reality is, to me, it was irresponsible to go anywhere other than figuring out how we modernize the 1951 agreement where Greenland and Denmark agreed to more or less give us unfettered access in Greenland to project power in the arctic. So, now let’s – now that the temperatures have cooled, show a little bit of respect to Denmark and to Greenland. Figure out what part of Greenland – – we need to up fit our space base, the only – the only instance of military – or U.S. presence in Greenland now to the north. Take a look at a base that they offered to us for a dollar and come up with a fiscally sound, sustainable way to project power in the east but working with Canada and their ice breakers, which are necessary for us to navigate there, working with Denmark and our Scandinavian and arctic allies to really project the kind of power we need to defer – to deter China and Russia.
ED O’KEEFE: The German chancellor at the start of this conference suggested that the world order as we know it is over. I know you were talking about hyperbole there at the start of this. Do – would you agree, though, with the chancellor that things are changing that rapidly?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Only if the chancellor allows it to. Look, if the NATO countries who came up short for decades would just admit that that was a mistake and then double their – redouble their efforts, I think that this goes just like the hyperbolic language around Greenland is now almost – it’s unbelievable that it was only three weeks ago, but it’s almost in the distant path.
I think we have to look ahead and recognize that the American people, the American Congress, and I believe the administration is behind it. But they’re not wrong to point out the deficiencies of the past.
Look, I’ve been in meetings where people talk about some of our social programs and how we should really step up with the European world. At then, at the same time, they’re funding some of those programs at the expense of their own defense.
ED O’KEEFE: Yes.
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: So, let’s just have an honest discussion with family members and get the family right.
ED O’KEEFE: Let’s work through a few other issues here. European leaders this week also suggested that they’re not taking retaliatory tariffs off the table. Back here at home, the House voted to essentially reject the president’s tariffs on Canada after a bunch of Republicans joined with Democrats to make that happen in the House. If that ever comes up in the Senate, are you someone who would agree with that, that the tariffs against Canada should be stripped away?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Well, I’ve look at – what I think we need to do is get the USMCA modernization, the agreement, on the table and address that in the context of strengthening our relationship with Canada and Mexico.
Look, this – we’re a very important trading block. And we should build on our successes. As I’m sure you know, a lot of the tariffs, there’s a lot of exemptions because of existence of USMCA. I think we ought to get in a room and sort them out. I’ve had – I’ve expressed publicly concerns with a lot of the tariffs that were imposed. I still, to this day, can’t figure out why we have a 50 percent tariff on Brazil when we have trade surplus with Brazil. Those sorts of things are irrational to me. In other cases, I can justify it based on past behaviors of countries that we have a deficit with. But we need to be surgical and not use a blunt force object to negotiate trade relationship, particularly with China and Mexico – or, I’m sorry, with Canada and Mexico.
ED O’KEEFE: Should your party be distancing itself more from the president, though, on tariffs, especially the closer it gets to November when the American public is not necessarily a fan of these moves?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: See, I don’t think it’s a matter of distancing ourself. That’s what’s wrong with Washington. We’ve gotten into this mode now to where we have some sort of a loyalty or fealty test because we either disagree. Often it’s not even the what, it’s the how.
I do think the what the holding countries that have – we have had chronic trade deficits with accountable is necessary. And if tariffs are required to get their attention, fine. But the how is a very surgical approach, not a blanket approach. Not one that actually creates fraud and uncertainty, because that’s not good for business. And the U.S., if anything else, is really good when we’re at our best on (ph) certainty.
ED O’KEEFE: You reiterated this week you’re going to block any confirmation hearings for a new Federal Reserve chairman or a board member until the Justice Department’s investigation of Jerome Powell is, as you put it, resolved. But will there be confirmation hearings for Kevin Warsh even if this DOJ investigation into Powell is continuing?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Well, let’s make the distinction between a confirmation hearing and then a confirmation markup. Mr. Walshe (ph) is going to have to decide whether or not he wants to go through with this because, as I’m sure you know, once the nominee is put forward, there are certain restrictions on what he can do in his – in his business life. But I’ve tried to make it very clear that I have no intention of supporting any confirmation of any Fed board member, chair or otherwise, to fill the Kugler seat, for example, until this is resolved. I think we had a young U.S. attorney with a dream trying to get the president’s attention, not even consulting with the administration and big DOJ on something that maybe they thought they’d get brownie points for. It’s not cute.
And if this is only about two minutes of discussion that came before Chair Powell, that prosecutor should listen to the seven members, Republican members, who said they didn’t see any criminal intent or activity. And more importantly, prosecutor should understand that the protocol normally would be a referral from the chair or a member of the committee to say, we think a crime was committed here. We’ve got a crime scene where seven Republican members say no crime was committed.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: How hard is that to understand?
ED O’KEEFE: But when the Treasury secretary said Friday there’s a deal to at least hold confirmation hearings for Kevin Warsh to serve as next chairman of the Federal Reserve, is he misguided on that?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Well, that’s not a deal. That’s a decision that they – – that the chair makes unilaterally in his capacity as chair. The decision I get to make is whether or not I allow a markup. And if I do allow a markup, how I vote. And I’m saying that until the matter is solved, I’m a no.
ED O’KEEFE: Understood. And when you say resolved, when you want this investigation resolved, does that mean everything dropped by the Justice Department and other entities?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Well, keep in mind, everything is an investigation about two minutes of commentary.
ED O’KEEFE: Right.
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Even for this guy, that’s not hard to figure out.
ED O’KEEFE: You have been quite critical of the administration on a suite of issues, whether it’s tariffs, how it’s engaging Europe, as you mentioned earlier, concerns about Homeland Security and whatnot. And you’ve said that it runs the risk of hurting your party going into November. So, I’m curious, if the elections were held today, would Republicans hold on to the House and the Senate?
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: I think that we hold on to the Senate. I have questions about the House. And some of that comes from what I believe may have been a little bit of overreach with respect to redistricting.
Plus, you have the historic challenge of a mid-term election after presidential election. A lot of complexities in it. But I – you know, we’ve got work to do. And again, my beef almost always relates to what I consider to be how things are being done. And I think the president has some advisers around him. You’ve heard me talk about Stephen Miller. You know my opinion about Kristi Noem. These are people that don’t look around corners and are not taking care of this president’s legacy. And I intend to. And if I have to speak bluntly, that’s what I’m going to do in my remaining time in the Senate.
ED O’KEEFE: Well, we appreciate you speaking bluntly with us this morning from the Munich Security Conference.
Senator Tillis, thank you for your time.
SENATOR THOM TILLIS: Thank you.
(END VT)
ED O’KEEFE: And we’ll be right back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O’KEEFE: That’s it for us today. Thank you for watching. Margaret will be back next week. Until then, for “FACE THE NATION,” I’m Ed O’Keefe.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
