dailynewsnblog
They might not be Bebop and Rocksteady, but they are the next best thing.
In the Spring of 1990, the original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles film was not only an unexpected blockbuster, it also became the biggest independent film in history (a title it held until The Blair Witch Project came out in 1999). With Turtle-Mania at its zenith, New Line Cinema immediately began production on Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze. In the sequel, the Ninja Turtles would not only be pitted in a rematch against the Shredder, but the evil ninja master would be backed up by two monstrous mutants of his own.
Naturally, kids who watched the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon every Saturday morning assumed Shredder’s mutant goons, Bebop and Rocksteady, would show up in the sequel. But the creators of the Ninja Turtles didn’t care for how dim-witted those characters were, so they opted for two new villains instead: a snapping turtle named Tokka and a wolf named Rahzar. (Ironically, these characters were even stupider than Bebop and Rocksteady were, thanks to Secret of the Ooze becoming more kid-friendly than the original film.)
They should have just made us Bebop and Rocksteady.
The mutants were brought to life by Jim Henson’s Creature Shop via practical effect foam latex suits. Besides the puppeteers who controlled the animatronic heads via remote control, each suit had a primary performer and a stunt performer for the action scenes. Though in the case of Tokka and Rahzar, the main actors were also veteran stuntmen. Inside Tokka was Kurt Bryant, who had previously performed stunts in Die Hard and Ghostbusters II. Rahzar was performed by Mark Ginther, who would go on to play Lord Zedd in Power Rangers. (Veteran voice actor Frank Welker supplied the voices for both Tokka and Rahzar.)
Thirty-five years after the release of Secret of the Ooze on March 22, 1991, both men are still in the stuntman business, but they managed to find some time in their busy, hazardous schedules to join Polygon via Zoom and reminisce about the days when they were mutants.
To start, can you each tell me how you got your respective roles?
Mark Ginther: I got it through a mutual friend, Tom DeWier. There were a lot of us there, like 40 or something. We did a fight scenario with stunt coordinator Pat Johnson. I got the job as I was walking out the door. I was 6’5″ so that was my shoe-in. There weren’t many people my size.
Kurt Bryant: Tom DeWier was trying to push for me. We were good buddies at the time. He asked how tall I am and I said, “I’m 6’1.”” He said, “6’1″ is not enough. Wear some lifts.” So I put about two-and-a-half-inch lifts in my shoes. My feet were barely in my shoes and I’m walking in and I’m kind of teetering. Tom hasn’t looked up, but he’s at the table with Pat Johnson who said, “Okay, Kurt Bryant, he’s 6’4″.” And Tom’s head pops up, “6’4″?” I don’t know what happened after that, but I did get the job.
Ginther: That’s pretty interesting there, Kurt, because I ended up being in four-and-a-half-inch lifts for Rahzar. Did Tokka have lifts?
Bryant: Nothing at all, no.
All I could see was my feet.
Once you were cast, what was the process like after that?
Bryant: They flew me to London to the Jim Henson Creature Shop for a week and just took my sizes. They were making an arm, making a leg, then fitting it, and then checking it. I didn’t see the finished product until we met in North Carolina [for filming], probably a month later.
Ginther: I spent three and a half hours standing with my arms stretched out, and they did a full cast of me. That was my first experience in anything like that. Jim Henson had just passed away a couple days before I went out, and I’m thinking, “Oh my God, the people are going to be so depressed.” And they were, yet there was like a fairy dust when I walked through that door. It was just amazing how they all worked. I looked at that and I said, “This is better than Disney.”
Was there anything else you had to do to prepare?
Ginther: Before filming, there was a two-week process where we met with them every day and we put on a flat white mask with no expression, like a Halloween mask. We had to bring a character to life by the little innuendos you would do with your head and shoulders. That’s how they trained us to tell a story without your face.
How heavy were those suits?
Ginther: I don’t know, but I’ve had several of them and you could start off with a latex suit that might weigh 20 pounds and by lunchtime, they’re going to weigh 50 pounds because they’re soaking wet with your sweat.
Bryant: My head was 20 pounds and the suit total was like, 110 pounds. I had a big heavy shell on the back, and they had to build me a special chair to sit in because I had all these spikes out of my back. It was quite a project to keep me comfortable.
Ginther: Mine wasn’t as bad. I had high shoulders, but I didn’t have stuff on my back, though it was covered in real yak hair. My head was quite heavy, it had 28 servos, which was the largest they had ever made. All I could see was my feet.
Bryant: I had limited vision. I could see out of the mouth when they decided to open it.
Do you have any memories from the fight scenes with the Turtles that stand out to you?
Bryant: Not me. They just put me inside of a suit and if they were kicking at me. You’re not doing a fight. You’re just putting your arm out or swiping. That was my big martial arts move.
Ginther: Yeah, we didn’t kick. We didn’t do anything like that. We were just there most of the time.
Last question, did you guys interact at all with Vanilla Ice on set?
Bryant: Maybe he said “Hi,” but we were kept off set until we put our heads on.
Ginther: Kurt and I were in secret. They didn’t want anyone to know about us, so they didn’t have publicity for us and we were shielded as we went from one stage to another. We were supposed to be the new Bebop and Rocksteady. We were supposed to be the new thing, but of course that didn’t really work out that way. They should have just made us Bebop and Rocksteady.
